Official 4.3.2?

Puppy 4.3.1 was released on October 17, 2009. That's five months since an official release! Too long.

The development of 4.4 has gone into hibernation, and we don't really know when that will pick up again.

Meanwhile, I keep rolling along developing Woof and adding so many goodies (like the improper shutdown handling just announced). Users of 431 are left on the sidelines watching this but not participating unless they try one of the recent builds such as Dpup, Tpup, or Quirky. There are also some specialised builds such as Jemimah's Puppeee.

Then there's the fact that newcomers will quite naturally choose to download the latest official Puppy, 4.3.1, but in reality they are getting something that we have moved way beyond.

So, I know that I am supposed to be retired from the frontline of releasing official puppies, but considering all of the above, should I come back in and bring out 4.3.2?

I did build an experimental 4.3.2 recently, which was reasonably sane. So, I could do another one then start a forum thread so we can thrash out the bugs, then it will become a gap-filler official release -- something to fill the void until 4.4 or even 5.0 comes along.

I would need to have considerable positive response to do this. I don't want to move back in stepping on toes. So if you don't want me to do it and would rather position some other build as the contender for next official release, please say so -- though note that I am talking about something that we can release soon, given that huge 5 month interval.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 18:03


Comments:

Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:36 by 01micko
ok.. if you feel up to it
Barry

I see where you are coming from.. you have to weigh up the pros and cons I suppose. Sure, we need a new version... an official stable one.. but at the cost of woof/quirky development in the interim?

Only you can answer that one. Depends on the length of "interim".

Sorry not to be of much help.

(posted from "tpup" 009 ;) [and I think my network issues with sns-2.2 are el-cheapo router issues!] )

Cheers


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:39 by BarryK
4.3.2 feedback
I have created a forum thread to discuss this:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=53612



Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:48 by Terryphi
What do users want?
Frankly, general users don't much care about the highly technical tweaks in Puppy/Quirky. They want something that just works out of the box on their hardware - and they don't want to be upgrading every five minutes.

Despite all the effort that has gone into solving wireless issues recently Puppy and Quirky are still unreliable, or even useless, with some wireless adaptors. The latest linux kernels seem to have made the problem worse. The cutting edge does not always provide useful progress.

I certainly do not wish to deprecate the efforts of you and other developers who put in so much work but the focus seems to be slipping away from the needs of the general user.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:51 by BarryK
4.3.2 packages
01micko,
Well, Woof is used to build any puppy, so that development will continue.

We will need to have a round of upgrading of the applications in 4.3.1.

I know that technosausus has been working on 4.4, but I got the impression that had slowed, and that we need a gap-filler. If I'm wrong on that, then I'll back off -- as I say, I don't want to step on toes. This needs considerable discussion and consensus.



Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:55 by Max Headroom
My 10c Worth
Yes I've been Curious about 4.4 Development, I think technosaurus may have had sum Health issues Distracting Him & I Do Understand Y'r Consideration 'bout Stepping on Anybody eLses Toes, However 5 Months is Rather a Pregnant Pause Between Official Releases, Altho' I've Always been of the Opinion that the Customary 6 - 8 Week Release Cycle was Sum Wot Premature, I'd Prefer 3 - 4 Month, So I Say Go 4 it! :)


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:56 by BarryK
4.3.2
Terryphi,
You have missed the point. The proposed 4.3.2 will have the same kernels as 4.3.1. It is just 4.3.1 with the latest goodies available in Woof, and probably some applications upgraded. That's why it is numbered "4.3.2".



Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 17:56 by bugman
sanity
reasonably sane, hmm, maybe fully sane should be the word for puppy releases

of course, i hate upgrading . . .


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 18:03 by tronkel
Where to now?
I've been wondering about this for some time.
The latest Quirkys are mostly OK on my hardware. Others may well have a different view.

How about just taking the latest Quirky, and try to get it to work with a wider range of hardware? Doesn't have to be the very latest kernel for a stable release.

Barry's vanilla versions are always the least problematic in my experience. If I have got real work to do, I use one of these versions.

So yes, I would be for Barry doing another stable release that inherits all or at least some of the important improvements that have appeared since 4.3.1 stable.

While some of the non-Barry versions are showing formidable progress, the reality is that Barry's versions rule.

This dependence on Barry's work will probably never be resolved in Puppy's lifetime. Nobody knows what the hereafter will bring as far as Puppy versions are concerned.

Please hang on in there Barry if you're up to it.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 19:09 by gjuhasz
New puppy should beat all others
Puppy 432 should convince users to upgrade both due to content and performance. If, for example, Opera 10.50 (even the beta) replaces Seamonkey and mplayer runs a bit faster than in Quirky (compare stream playing performance of 431/gxine with Quirky/mplayer), than users will surely upgrade to 432.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 19:12 by drblock2
Official 4.3.2
What I particularly like about puppy is that I can have a "work" pup and a "play" pup at the same time and incorporate improvements along the way.

While I download and at least informally test every new Quirky - I strongly believe that what we need now is a stable 4.3.2 - that I can recommend to my friends as a work dog.

So, my vote: Yes, do come back and issue an official 4.3.2.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 19:54 by eprv
432
Yes, implementing the last improvements to 431 will be appreciated.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 19:58 by John Biles
Make the Basic's Reliable
Hello Barry K, You have provided the base for us Puppy Users to be creative. Just take a look at the number of derivatives that have been created.
To me Linux and in turn Puppy needs to supply the expected basic's in an OS. I should be able to write a Letter, print it, surf the Internet with access to all it can offer me with Flash, codecs etc and allow me to print an Web page as well. tuuxxx has reported problems and fixes with base Libs which caused a lot of crashing problems with firefox3 and has done a wonderful job with 2.14X Update. I know and understand fully that up until your so called retirement you controlled what went into Puppy fully, but for this release it might be in Puppy's best interest to collaborate more with knowledgeable Forum members and take into account the possibilities that some Lib versions like the ones in Puppy tuuxxx discovered and found a fix for caused Firefox3 to crash. Why weren't these updated. Give us a strong reliable Hardware friendly base Puppy that Puppy Users can play with for the next couple of Years. May be a "Long Term Release" like Ubuntu Provides. We must keep up with the every changing Standards the Internet and Hardware suppliers keep throwing at us. Try to imagine what the average PC User does with their PC and create a Puppy based on that.



Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 20:04 by DC
co-ord the effort
How about getting comment from the Puppy puplet developers about which bug fixes worked 100% and incorporating them. Save time save effort.

How would we know the difference between the "official 4.3.2" and the "experimental 4.3.2" ?

otherwise yes a official upgrade is required

DC




Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 20:42 by adi
a regular schedule needed
yes, you are right. I use puplets because they are more recent! so the best puplet must be rise at the range of the new official puppy every 4 mouth in a competitive way. I think now quirky is the the real candidate. and distrowatch place goes down too


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 21:07 by JustGreg
Yes
I think it is a good idea to bring out the next version of Puppy 4.3 series. It shows the continued development. Improved functionality is desired. Networking is a problem. Upgrading can be difficult. But, with the base Puppy, I have never had a problem. It is the items that I add on, which are the source of problems. Please released a updated version


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 21:25 by Jota
Yes, do it!
Barry, yes, of course you should do a official 4.3.2.

Woof has seen recently some very important upgrades that should not be left out.

So, I propose the goals for 4.3.2 should be:

1) building from latest Woof;
2) upgrading the apps, where that applies;
3) going through the bugs reports on the foruns and making very sure the release is stable enough and everything works well together ;-)



Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 21:39 by Jota
Firefox 3
@ John Biles:

Strange, as far as I remember, Firefox 3 works for me on Puppy 4.3.1 without the need to change any library file!

But, I agree that there *maybe* be advantageous to upgrade some specific libs in 4.3.1.



Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 21:41 by f00-
appropriate
Considering the advances and bugfixes (notably the redo of initrd for various install methods and some 'Spring cleaning' of dusty corners), a p432 official release is entirely appropriate. It makes a good impression on newcomers to Puppydom to see a well-thought-out cycle of (official) development and release for the flagship.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 22:03 by jamesbond
No you should not
People will probably hate me for this, but I need to say this, my 20c worth.

No, you should not release "official Puppy" now, at least, not yet.

1. If you release a new version, even with the old kernel, it will make most of the "future official puppy" (either 4.4. or 5.0) immediately obsolete. People always prefer the "official" versions from the "official" source. Your release will give the impression that "all those 4.4 or 5.0" are not "official", only your release is "official". (Remember puppy 4.2 and 4.3 saga?)

2. Five months is a long time, but not that long. Let those who have been trusted to continue the puppy line, to do so. Unless, of course, they put on a white flag and says "I can't go on anymore ...". For me, I'll give it at 6 more months to go.

3. Your stepping in and out can become a habit, everybody will expect you to save the ship if the ship is sinking ... meaning that, they will always look up to you to release the official puppy. They know that everything in between is just a stop-gap measure.

4. Either way, you have always released the latest puppy, only that it's "unofficial" and you call the release as "Quirky" :) At least that's how it looks to me.

Basically - if you release puppy now, the Community cannot move on without you. They know they will always you to fall back on. Is that something you really wish for?

Keep moving with woof. That's how it will interest the developers. Keep moving with Quirky. It's the proof that woof works.

Let sleeping dogs lie ... unless you really wants to take the leash again.

I'm happy to be corrected.

cheers!


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 22:28 by Jemimah
4.3.2
I tentatively agree with JamesBond. This is a sink or swim moment for the community. It's too soon to throw in a life preserver.

It would be awesome if you could improve the woof GUI and documentation. Make the learning curve with woof less steep.


Posted on 18 Mar 2010, 24:15 by ttuuxxx
Official 4.3.2
Well Barry, As you said its too late to revert Xorg on Quirky, And really I can't see Quirky,Tpup replacing 4 Series with a black background on menu icons on 2 of my pc's and not being able to load on the other. That said the other 5 Series just are way too large, I don't think puppy should be over 105MB Max as a base, just yet, and the smallest is like 125MB, So what choice do we have? Do a large overhaul on Quirky/Tpup base for a older Xorg, Release a 4.3.2 just to buy us some time? I looked at distrowatch like 2 days ago and we were still#9, So we aren't loosing any ground yet, That's a positive sign :)

So Basically I'm for a 4.3.2, wouldn't hurt anything, why not.
Only thing new I would like to see in it is.

Pprocess gets replaced with LXtask. Lxtask just works, its small, easy to use and understand and takes less resources.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lxde/files/LXTask%20%28task%20manager%29/LXTask%200.1.1/lxtask-0.1.1.tar.gz/download

Pctorrent gets replaced with Transmission with rox .torrent mime included, We get lots of request on how to download torrents, Pctorrents GUI really isn't apealing for newbee's.
usually around 300kb pet package. If you want some proof, transmission-1.91 has been download 3500 times, and that's just that release on forum,
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=38969 and tha's just since "Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: Transmission updated to version 1.91"
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=398195#398195


Uget replaces pwget, Uget is featured apcked, resumes failed downloads and is a dialup users dream. Usually around 60kb pet.
http://urlget.sourceforge.net/
Like I mentioned before there's even a seamonkey plugin that works with it.

ttuuxxx





Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 2:31 by playdayz
Forward
Hey BK, I would say, Push Forward more. 4.3.1 works fine, why make a release just to have a release. Could enthusiasm be generated by calling for a push on Dpup--involve lots of people in testing and debugging. It is a bit of a quandary. You might have to decide the direction of Puppy 5. A decision that Dpup will be puppy 5 will have lasting implications. Maybe some kind of Battle of the Bands, between Dpup, Tpup, Upup, and others, even Quirky. That could raise issue and result in some cross fertilization. I would not expect uPup to prevail because as ttuuxxx said, it is too big, but it does do somethings right I think. We would have to keep tempers under control. Or perhaps you could choose one of the Puppy 4 derivatives for some testing and release as the "last" Puppy 4??? What is Zigbert's named. Tough call all around, eh?




Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 2:35 by Jota
Think again...
@ JamesBond, Jemimah

I think you are missing Barry's point:

1) 4.3.2 is not a MAJOR release, just a needed upgrade from 4.3.1, since some importante updates and bugs fixing had been implemented in recent Woof's

2) it is not good to the Puppy ecosystem to be for so long without something new to play!! ;-)

So, let's go for it!!




Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 3:28 by joe.c
yes please
This is good news, I try many Puppies but I always come back to the official Puppy, it is always the fastest on my hardware.Puppy is a wonderful os please don't let it fail. joe


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 4:02 by 8-bit
Another YES
The applications and kernel used in Puppy 4.3.1 should be kept.
But... I think the applications should be updated to the latest stable versions.
An example would be SeaMonkey. Mozilla is dropping all support for the 1.xx versions of it so it should be updated.
Inclusion of the autosetup of networking as in Quirky would be welcome for Out of the Box experience.
But as far as changing audio/video applications, I would say no.



Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 4:41 by peterw
Go for 432
Some of the reasons that Puppy is popular is because: it is extremely powerful for its size; it is up to date; it runs extremely well on old machines; it is quick; it does not inhibit changes and provides a valuable Linux learning tool; it allows modifications of other systems AND it provides a base system for all the puplets. I have interested more and more people in its use. I would hate to have too long a period of stagnation. I suspect that a 6 month gap is the longest we can go between an update.

Finding someone or an organisation to carry on the development of Puppy is not easy. Barry has set a very high standard. He has dedicated much time, effort and expertise. He is driven to follow his interest and his views. I can see that Barry wants to hand over the reins and also wants Puppy to carry on succeeding. We are in an interim situation where we have not yet found the final organisation and the people who have the time and abilities to completely take over. I agree that unless Barry leaves some kind of organisation vacuum then people will not come forward to fill it. It is tricky but on balance I think there is a need to push out a 432. This would allow the puplet people to progress and also keep Puppy's good name going. It should not inhibit the development of its successor 4.4 or 5 since their progress appears to be done by others.

All the developers of Puppys and Puplets have my respect for the work that they do. I only wish I had the skills to help more.

peterw


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 6:44 by cthisbear
Not Happy Jan

Barry:

I’m devastated.
Seven months since a release.
I know that the windmill project and the termites have kept you busy,
But this was the man who released 7 Puppies in one year.

So I’m not happy Jan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2akt3P8ltLM

“”””””””””””
This is what I believe should happen.

Yes to a new Puppy. It keeps up the interest for everybody.
It motivates other devs to try and top it.
The world doesn’t stop changing or turning for anyone.

I believe that ttuuxxx should get a go as >> Co Deveeloper.

He has matured, always puts out fixes, releases etc.
His stuff is good.
Do you take your car to a bad mechanic?
He has worked with many other Devs on their projects.
He is wired to the puppy circuit.
Most of his fixes should be in there.
This time really think outside the square.

Please make sure the codecs work..
All of them including iPods.
Youtube works and browser crashing stop>>>Flash issues.
I like Seamonkey.
However why can’t we radical.?
Maybe offer Opera or Firefox as the main option.
I’m trying to keep Sage off your back.
Whatever is in…I’d like working Pets of the other browsers>>>that just work.

A nice stable platform that can help people like John Biles and others
just custom build their projects for others to enjoy.
Look at Macpups popularity…awsome.
Nop from Grey, Teenpup, Lighthouse, Dpup Puppeee etc ..we have great variety.

Ttuuxxx and you = Superpuppy.

It’s not about stepping on toes.
It’s about advancement, freshness.
Your different approaches in everything you release is what makes Puppy.
Bugger the whingers….and I want the man on the bike on the desktop…Ha!…Ha1

Regards….Chris.








Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 6:48 by daftdog
keep being the cutting edge of puppy
I agree with the idea that if you keep stepping in then this will always become expected. Is this what you want?
From a personal point of view: keep up the cutting edge work on Woof/Quirky etc., This is where your talents are put to best use.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 6:58 by wombat01
Absolutely Yes
Puppy will always be the product of Barry in my eyes no matter if he decides to retire or simply leave. I am always more confident will Barry's releases than any others. I'm not saying that other developers puplets are not as good in fact the majority are indeed as good. It's just that I have the utmost respect for his work and knowledge.
I have been using 432 experimental since it's release and it has been working great on my new hardware. 431 did not work without a lot of fiddling.
I enjoyed seeing new releases every 6 weeks. I would generally count down the days so I could play with something new. I always thought six weeks was a bit ambitious but it worked for me.
I agree with many others, a lot of people don't care about the technical side, they just want something that works and is intuitive.
Official releases and upgrades both work for me. I also think it important to stay current with later kernels and software. This is one of the benefits of puppy and why it is so popular.
If Barry thinks it might be good idea to update the current official release, then so do I.

YES YES YES.

Grant



Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 8:10 by ozsouth
Cautious yes
With the utmost respect to others, I would like to see 4.3.2. It does create a 'BK to the rescue' scenario, which is pressure you don't need, but we seem to lose drive every time you need a pause.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 8:01 by SouthPaws1
432
How about as a bonus edition...

Raise the size limit... to 210mb(mini-cd size).

1.This may work well in solidifying the release cycle...(once a quarter or once every 4 months)
2. and buying a little time for the other developers...
3. and satisfying several types of users with more choice within the distro...
4. and growing the user/developer base...


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 8:54 by Bruce_101
New Puppy 4.3.2
I want to put in my 2 cents.

Barry and associates, I read the developer's blog as often as I have network connections. It is great to learn how linux and puppy do or don't work.

I have 14 single partition USB drives with various Puppys.

Most have firefox 3.6 as the browser add as a pet or built in, OpenOffice.sfs added and all as frugal installs.

There are many puplets based on Barry's 4.3.1 that are coming out almost weekly: Stardust, Lighthouse, Browser Linux to name a few. The fact that the official release is not changing is allowing this development to occur from a stable base of 4.3.1.

Given the Base of Barry's 4.3.1
1. Add the fixes that Barry has come up with.
2. Add Ziberts Puppy Control Center from Stardust
3. Add TacOK ability to have 40 sfs files from Lighthouse
4. Add the ablility to use the Lighthouse additional sfs files for KDE, Mariner, GoogleEarth, Bibletime, OpenOffice, Opera
5. Add firefox 3.6.x addon as an sfs4 file for Puppy 4.3.1
6. Add a GnuCash sfs4 file (may require KDE sfs
7. Add Pwireless2 or Barry's SNS-2
8. Add ability to fsk pupsave file on startup
9. Add wbar or Stardust Utility ptray
10. Add ability to turn off and on the autosave
via a right click on the SAVE icon and add a redbar or "red X" across the SAVE icon when disabled.
11. Add soft links in the directory of a frugal install in /root to /mnt/home = rootball named Home where the sfs and pupsave files are installed.
12. Add a menu editor GUI.
14. Prefect the ability to take a puppy with several sfs files and generate a new CD with a new name instead of pup431.sfs

Thus making this again a very stable platform for puplet development.

The strength of Puppy is that it works!!
It is simple and easy for newcomers to use.
It is small but can be expanded with sfs files
It can be expanded and a new CD created.

Thank everyone for their contribution to this great OS!!!!!!!!
Bruce



Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 9:16 by dogle
YES
Respect for the contra arguments offered by jamesbond Jemimah (whose secondary comment I echo) but a 432 is amply justified if only to address the newbie feedback which is pointing to serious (but very easily fixable) difficulty arising from the present jumping-off page setup - more detail
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=402405


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 9:34 by dogle
Oops
Sorry wrong link
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=53612&start=30


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 9:44 by mistfire
Yes GO for it! but its now time to make a change
Barry, Go for it. However its now time to make some improvements. I suggest on you that you must make the puppy more compact as possible because the 4.3.1 is almost more than 90MB. I noticed that you make the Dingo smaller than 3.0 , so it is possible on 4.3.x series of puppy. Please consider what the general users want.

Yes the puppy is good but there is a thing that hinders the being user-friendly of puppy. And that was the file manager, Rox-filer is good but tend not to be difficult for the newbies due to its own commands and implementation. I always prefer using puplet specially Gray's NOP. Because it is the one of the most compact and most user friendly Puppy that I ever use. I noticed that he removed all the unnecessary and redudant apps. He select more user-friendly apps. And many puplets based on his Puplet.

If you don't want the xfcee environment as primary Desktop environment. I suggest this combination>>>JWM + Thunar. Please include the disklabel implementation (if the device has a disklabel on it). To identify the storage devices easily. Here is my concept: When the storage device is detected instead of "sdxN" appeared on Desktop, "(sdXN)my_drive" appeared which was the same as "(X:)my_drive" on ms windows.

I hope these my suggestions help a lot you and for the development of Puppy.

Good Luck Barry and more power to you.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 9:51 by WN2A
Build it and they will come.
If you have the time and energy Barry (ttuuxx and team), if you build it, we will test it. I'd gladly take it for a spin, and check it with the Qucs/Asco package I build, and run fldigi and the other apps. Another release helps keep us sharp.
Yep, it's a case of the "five month itch"!


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 11:44 by james c
4.32
I'd vote to go ahead with a 4.3.2 release. Seems that some are forgetting that the upcoming 4.4 is a "community edition"......not an official release.
There have been enough bugfixes and other improvements to warrant a new 4.3.2.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 14:27 by pemasu
Official bugfixed 4.3.2
Yes. Official bugfixed 4.3.2 is good idea. There has been announced a lot of bugfixes and improvements which would be sensible to gather under bugfixed Official 4.3.2.
As for apps. I second ttuuuxxx ideas. Transmission is better for bittorrents and Uget has worked flawlessly.



Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 14:40 by lobster
4.3.2
Puppy 4.4 is an official Puppy in alpha
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy44

We do not yet have so many developer choices we can turn down development of a new Puppy 4.3.2 :smile:

4.4 will hopefully be inspired and gain impetus


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 15:50 by ttuuxxx
puppy 4.4 official
Hi lobster I beg to differ with you on that, To my knowledge it should be a CE edition, If you read
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=395191#395191
or
technosaurus wrote:

Stardust is 99% incorporated with the first pre-alpha of 4.4CE
I'll make an announcement tomorrow, but I am too tired now... so enjoy
http://puppy-development.googlecode.com/files/pup-431-2.iso

then we look at what stardust is http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=52747
You will quickly understand that its a nice quality project but a highly reduced version, Not puppy main release type base. around 50 apps removed. Users have voice there opinion's against it being a main release. So If it isn't main release quality then what is it? I would think it would be only natural to call it a CE edition, technosaurus does take users inputs when voiced.

As for a major 4 series release say 4.5 since 4.4 is taken already.
That would be simple to speculate what would be needed,
The devx is dated, Qt version is dated, Python is dated, really the backend needs updating, Barry has done some already, but it still needs further updates we are talking some important libs are dated to 2007, I get compiling issues all the time that different parts are too old and I have to hack the configure code to work, hmmm Not sure but before you couldn't even compile the latest gimp because the gtk version didn't have libgio.

ttuuxxx






Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 15:54 by Sage
Hello
Since all the notables have signed in here, just let me say "G'day cobber".


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 16:33 by tronkel
Puppy 5?
How about leaving 4 series where it is at the moment and use Quirky to go straight to Puppy 5 now?

Maybe use Quirky Woof, make a couple of Betas to allow the community to test for hardware compatibility. Might as well put all that Quirky R & D to good use. Could just be out in time to compete with the latest Ubuntu Lucid Lynx which is due out next month.

No need to worry about bling. This would be a base version.

Dpup already envisioned as the next Puppy 5 could get promoted to Puppy 6. How's that for a roadmap?
The planed Puppy 4.4 could then become a long-term 4 series version.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 17:02 by drongo
Future direction
I think there are enough minor bugs for 4.3.1 to be upgraded. i also think 4.3.2 should be the last official release of any puppy by Barry.

The promise of Woof and Quirky far outweigh any future Puppy release cycles.

At the moment, if Barry decides to give up on Puppy for whatever reason the whole project will just decay.

Woof, in particular, gives us a toolset to make our own Puppies.

It may be selfish of me but I'd prefer you to work on Quirky and Woof rather than keep coming back to tweak Puppy "mainstream".

Puppy 4.3.2 yes. Puppy 4.3.3 definitely no.

And thanks for all the Puppies to date, they are a great personal achievement. You have made computing fun again for so many people. Can anyone else claim that distinction?


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 17:05 by ttuuxxx
Puppy 5?
Hi tronkel Quirky is a reduced driver version of Tpup, Tpup is the only version of 5 series small enough to fit a official release size, The others are around 25MB++ over sized.
Tpup, Quirky's big brother share the same base and issues, We've been having lots of issues with Xorg, If we can get past those issues and have Xorg as pc friendly as it was in 4 series, Then we would have a great starting point for a official 5 series.

Or Dpup would have to be relooked at and basically remove all the gnome deps that 4 series didn't have, Dpup its like 163MB in its current state. Way way too large.The only real options we have right now is another 4 series release, or hopes that the next quirky 10 release will have the Xorg issues squashed, So Tpup could take the 5 series release. Really it does look like we are stuck with 4 series for time being.
ttuuxxx


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 17:17 by tronkel
Puppy 5
Good explanation ttuuxxx. Thanks.

tronkel


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 20:22 by Lobster
New Puppy
The next Official Puppy to be released
(even Barry thinks of his efforts as community editions) is based on what is available

We could release a 2 version (that is very refined)
We can release puplets or wooflets
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Woof

Up to the developers

I will use 4.3.2 as soon as available or 4.4 as soon as stable


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 20:59 by technosaurus
4.3.{2-4} reserved for BarryK
Barry,
I had planned on reserving 4.3.2 - 4.3.4 for your use, so no toe stepping there at all.

When I took on the role of coordinator, I did so with cautious hesitation. At the time I had a pretty laid back job, and I seemed to be the only one left that was still working on ppup. After I got over my pneumonia, I was transferred to a different department where I am now filling 3 positions and thus working about 80 hours a week. With that I have turned into more of a weekend warrior as of late. Rest assured, I am still (however slowly) working dilligently to make 4.4 live up to the BK standard.

On a similar note - with the advent of woof, the Puppy community has turned into a virtual microcosm of "Linux". Our developers have divided focus and tackled many of the same problems for each flavor of woof. If we can figure out how to solve this issue locally, the entire Linux community could benefit immensely.


Posted on 19 Mar 2010, 24:39 by Mulrah
Here we go again, indeed!
Why all this discussion? Everybody already knows there is no known cure for Brett Favre Syndrome.


Posted on 20 Mar 2010, 8:04 by arby
Yes to 4.3.2
I'm always interested in whatever Barry
thinks is stable and worthwhile. I've tried
many pups and have always returned to the
standard releases.


Posted on 21 Mar 2010, 7:41 by mikepuppy
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes.........................

Please and thanks


Posted on 21 Mar 2010, 9:26 by Joe J
4.3.2
If 4.4 is still going to take a while, I would love to have a new 4.3.2 version. It's getting to be too long without a new version.


Posted on 21 Mar 2010, 10:53 by cthisbear
Perhaps an Unofficial Pup
Barry.

If some comments put you off putting out
an official Puppy 4.32 Official release,
give us an Unofficial one.

With all my previous suggestions.
All ttuuxxx fixes etc.
You are obviously up for it.

Best wishes....Chris.




Posted on 21 Mar 2010, 10:59 by PaulBx1
Don't waste your time
I am using 4.3.1. I would not want a 4.3.2 because it would probably be a 4.4 really, and that would suck a lot of your time to get it right (that is, I don't see 4.3.2 being limited to a few simple bug fixes). I can wait for some of the other development paths to pan out. I'm holding out for 5.0 built with woof. We shouldn't do any more version 4 Puppies; I'd rather have you spend your time getting version 5 out that much sooner.

If there are a couple crucial bug fixes for 4.3.1, can't someone just make a pet for them?


Posted on 21 Mar 2010, 14:41 by mavrothal
Go bot it BUT
Puppy developed under the "benevolent dictator" organizational (!) scheme.
4.2, 4.4/5 now and history :-) shows that dictatorship can not be inherited successfully.
Thus there are really two options, either you keep going as long as you can or puppy.org must become just that, an organization.
Obviously the second will take some time so go for the first now and DO prepare the second.



Posted on 22 Mar 2010, 8:58 by Raffy
Play
What happened recently with Puppy was that support of users is given some importance, and the 4.2 developers were quite conscious of this.

It should not matter who releases an official Puppy (there is a rotating team for it), but IMHO, there should be just one official release per year, say around Puppy's anniversary month of June. This will be good for users, as developers can then focus on tutoring, trouble-shooting, etc, using one official version.

In this regard, an "updated 4.3.1" should not cause confusion, and download repositories can carry such a label, a "4.3.1". (There should be a pet to update one's 4.3.1 to the latest build.)


Posted on 22 Mar 2010, 8:03 by Raffy
Tilte
I really should have said that with 4.2, there was a conscious shift from experimentation ("play") to "user support" - sorry for the unchanged title of my post above.

We have Woof and Quirky for experimentation, so I guess the play is going just fine. :)


Posted on 22 Mar 2010, 16:39 by hazelem
stick to standard
in industrial production (as well as in cultural),
you don`t go out and market/publish your most recent development-baby - you wait till the ideas contained therein are ripe for integration into your product-line/artistic opus.

for the mainstream user, experimental builds are
wholely irrelevant - as is a car-makers mockup
model at the geneva motor show ; the user wants a
reliable and viable vehicle, POINT.

if its not mainstream you`re producing for, then
you`re into substantial trouble - because you`re
not producing for the public, but rather for the
sake of egos of a freaks-club ; the french would
say "l`art pour l`art = art for art`s sake"
building plastic car bodies on a standard chassis
branches out into 'flavors' and eventually leads
to oblivion of the initial concept.

for us mainstreamers, 'puppy' is the best live distro and i beg you to stick to the philosophy
which made it to be such - so bring out the 432,
as a brush-up and don`t lose orientation on
account of introducing unstable technical gadgets.

((on the margin, you may consider implementing a
full UDF-filesystem write-support - so people could save their files 'seamlessly', as they work
; to 210CD, 1.4DVD, or flash-mem. - these would
then be accessible under any OS.))


Posted on 27 Mar 2010, 14:55 by Aitch
4.3.2
Barry,
It's been awhile, and you seem to have recovered some enthusiasm. Only you can decide when to release official puppies, until you make your puppy retirement permanent
1/ I'd like to re-enforce several comments about THE biggest noob problem I'm aware of..... NETWORKING/WIRELESS/3G.....basically, how tricky it seems to be to get on the net reliably! with each puppy version/puplet - it just seems so darned inconsistent!
The thing I find often is a failure to get the DNSs, and thus not connect, though it may get to finding the IPs
2/ Another noob issue - where are the files??...Bruce B did a CLI piece which included a small midnight commander.pet - could that have a gui made for it?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=320560#320560
3/ Also consider xdelta for each issue update, for modem users
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=389784&sid=bb32dcada269e7c0e931aab3981d1f7f
4/ Finally, whilst I agree ttuuxxx has been thorough and prolific, much progress has been made by Joe with Slaxer_pup and especially his updater
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=379405#379405 which would be good for official puppy if it could be done.
5/ I also think there is a need to look at ext4 filesystems/grub2 and 4096byte hdd support...
6/ Yes, ...and how about a wind-generator desktop?
After all puppy is very energy efficient!
Thanks again, for all you do!
Aitch


Posted on 27 Mar 2010, 16:43 by cthisbear
Competition
Competition mounts.
His second try seems better.

Come on BK.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=404934&sid=dbe3e64891bfd0b39161e375b0e5a831#404934


Posted on 29 Mar 2010, 16:51 by Ansukakkonen
Wireless
Wireless, yeah.
There is a special puppy for Broadcom wifi-cards.
But I really wonder, why?
Is it impossible to do an installation script or something for that?
Meaning, when you istall Puppy for your pc or notebook, it will find out or you tell Puppy what hardware you have. Then Puppy will install necessary drivers.
Does this sound too simple?
There should not be any special Puppies just to fix some ridiculous problems like wifi.
These are basic things, to get connected.
So Barry, just concentrate to make basic things to work.


Posted on 31 Mar 2010, 9:39 by scsijon
4.3.2 bugfix ONLY
For my two cents

4.3.2 should be a bugfix only!

No new applications, No changes between applications, etc. THEY ARE NOT WANTED BY THE NEW USER. If they wanted daily updates they would still be happy with using Microsoft's products.

And as for the sake of new releases, hasn't the community realised that the stability, reliability and length of time between the need of releases IS IN Puppys favour.

Personally, i'd be more than happy to not see any major changes, especially to the desktop and the way things work for the rest of the year at least. And even then they should be only be allowed at a X.x release anyway.

The only thing I would like added at the present, is a simple way (novice level), to totally remove unwanted appliactions. Not only from the desktop, but from the filesystem as well.

In other words, don't rush.